Larger pulleys = less torque higher top speed, ya got this one backwards as well. Still need to do some wire management. 324. MPCNC DW660 Burley Mount Dust Collector - Shop Vac . Close. Máquina de corte plano flexível, de fácil uso e compacta com excelente relação preço/desempenho. I used harbor freight neodynium magnets to connect the base to top. Shop Vac) DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. Just don’t forget to reconfigure thermistor table in Marlin. Julie gave up on steel breadpans, so I have a source for longer parts bins. MPCNC - Mostly Printed CNC MPCNC est un projet libre conçu par Allted visant à créer une machine CNC efficace, abordable, évolutive, versatile en réutilisant la techno des imprimantes 3D (Arduino Mega, Ramps, Step-stick, G-Code, etc). Altogether, it took roughly 2.5 1kg spools and a week or so of printing time. I cannot explain why 50 bolts cost much more than four and less than 25 (were they in stock locally! I've built an MPCNC before with a Ramps and Arduino. I was able to repeat the same gcode later with no issues. Gcode produced in F360. Various comments suggest running a snug-fitting strip of 3/4 inch plywood inside the rail to stiffen it up; we’ll see how they fare against the MPCNC’s actual cutting forces before doing anything rash. I would stick to 12-15 and just vary the depth according to material density. The bars are made of the softest aluminum known to man in the thinnest cross-section that won’t crumple under a stiff glance, so they’re more flexy than you’d (well, I’d) like. Woodworking. by B-Cup Sep 6, 2016 . I’ve always wanted a CNC machine, but have never been able to put the money down. DW660 Magnetic Dust Shoe for MPCNC (enlarged hose) DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. Again, the shop vac collected all the chips from the brad-point bit. 500mm 2 work area / swappable spoiler boards (~700mm exterior MPCNC conduit length) Continuous compressed air chip clearing, shop vac / cyclone chip removal; Two chamber, full acoustic enclosure (cutting space + air I/O for vac and compressor) Full octoprint networking via GPIO relays; FWIW: Sketchup MPCNC: Posted by 11 months ago. I love to make things and he pretty much lets me make whatever I want then pays me to do it. If I find myself going back to get more of a given size of bolt, I start looking for the50 or 100piece boxes. I picked up a small assortment of stainless bolts in useful sizes, but they top out at 1-½ inch. The whole project from starting to print the parts to an operational machine was about two weeks. As you might expect, the top and bottom halves of the clamp castings aren’t quite symmetric. I ended up looking about 10 inches off the y axis cut. I undestand your point and it seems perfectly logical, but it completely contradict my experience. 1/4" end mill 10mm DOC. Could the shop vac have generated static or other electrical noise causing loss of steps? Looks like it’s time for a new thermistor …. 15: Implement gantry for Dust Collection: 14: 11/18/2020: 16: DW660 installation : 12,13,15: 11/18/2020: This includes using the relay in the ESP32 board, adding a seconds mains power to the electronics suite. STLBase is a Search Engine for 3D printable Models and STL Files. Dec 2, 2018 - Explore Subbiahdevakikkdi's board "mpcnc" on Pinterest. Log in sign up. Then I cut an opening in the side to attach a 3d printed plenum that adapts my shop vac to it. Dust Collection Vortex Generator 1.25" hose. I love to make things and he pretty much lets me make whatever I want then pays me to do it. So now I have four dozen bolts on the shelf … [sigh]. I have one of the coolest bosses in the world. I didn’t realize the clamps were made with C-channel. The t-nut may not be exactly centered in the counterbore, but nobody will ever notice. Woodworking Tools. Without seeing the resulting cut or knowing more it is best not to give to many hypothetical scenarios and confuse the issue. Discover (and save!) So either it is moving too fast or a gCode issue. Press J to jump to the feed. I tried again this time with the shop vac as far away as the hose would allow and I had no issues. You might want to slow down until you are sure your machine can handle it. DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. Redrill the pilot hole with a 5/16 inch brad-point bit to fit the 1/4-20 t-nut body: MPCNC – t-nut in counterbore. Got dust collection set up, it’s a life changer. I use in my shop, made one for my husby in the garage, sent one to our son, and tell all my friends and neighbors. Two issues: "Skipping" and parallel pocket incomplete, My design for a clean, maintainable wiring harness, Slightly crazy idea to obtain very high precision, Copyright 2019 - V1 Engineering Inc - License information. Saved by Stiaan De. Thingiverse is a universe of things. It was not even plugged into the same circuit as my MPCNC. The requirements for the parts employed are extraordinarily high, as they are often used in life-supporting systems. Smaller bits can cut faster due to lower loads than a larger bit on our machine (rpm’s, diameter, kerf, ect. There was no mechanical interference either. Bill. Love this. “Larger pulleys = less torque higher top speed, ya got this one backwards as well.”. MPCNC – t-nut in counterbore. This topic contains 13 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Jason 2 years, 9 months ago. December 2020. With the low cost of the MPCNC, I’m confident I can get in for less than $500. VAC products support the fight against COVID-19. But the vac table I made is super cheap and easy to replicate - I just cut 3 sheets of foam board, one with horizontal slots, one with vertical, and a 3rd with holes where the slots line up. Click on images to download cnc dual extruder STL files for your 3D Printer. Is your shop vac plugged into same outlet as Ramps/Arduino power supply? DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. Here are DXF plans for the 3 sheet pad - although you need a working needle cutter to use them. Capabilities: Mills wood, plastic, foam, carbon fiber, circuit boards, soft metals, and can make occasional light cuts in hard metals. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Had a big crack in it, but since I just … This enclosure has three removable clear plexiglass windows and one wood wall for mounting the electronics. I am trying to determine if I need to be more careful with the shop Vac. Tom Cole. 219 401 4 Thingiverse. Also testing out inshot for quick video edits. The shop vac was plugged into same circuit as MPCNC. I hacksawed them to a suitable length, cleaned up the cut on the bandsaw, and the cut disappears in the end block: By complete coincidence, the rear bolt holes turned out to be exactly lined up with the edge of the metal bench frame, so I had to remove eleven of the twelve screws holding the bench to the frame, rotate it slightly, drill the rear holes, install the t-nuts, un-rotate the top, and reinstall all the screws. A feed rate of 25mm/s at 3mm depth of cut is pretty high if you are cutting wood. The number of magnets is probably overkill. DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. Free Shipping by Amazon. Dust Collection Vortex Generator 1.25" hose. Shop shop vacuums and a variety of tools products online at Lowes.com. Vysavače Shop-Vac jsou vhodné do domácnosti, kanceláře, skladu, ale i pro řemeslníky, opraváře a jiné průmyslové využití. [grin]. I have ear muffs on when I do the cut, so I would not hear the motors complaining if that did happen. Apr 6, 2020 - Download files and build them with your 3D printer, laser cutter, or CNC. I have one of the coolest bosses in the world. The bar clamps started out at 36 inches and stuck out over the far end of the bench. Eligible for Free Shipping. Works like a champ! Thanks for the pics. Apr 7, 2019 - This Pin was discovered by Dara Jabar. Mar 26, 2019 - Finally did it...I should have made this as my first CNC project. This topic contains 13 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Jason 2 years, 9 months ago. I have a big list of them and the MPCNC is near the top. Shop-Vac ® je uznávaným americkým světovým lídrem v produkci vysavačů na mokré a suché vysávání. I can say that my shop vac most definitely was the cause of some strange and random movement during cutting on my machine. You must be logged in to reply to this topic. I think I can conjure a modified finger wrench, but …. Shop Vac) DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. 172. dewalt 660 shopvac upper bracket. If I remember correclty, my pulleys are 14 tooth, I think the ones your recommended were 10 tooth. I dont have this exact one (rather a thien baffle I made on my MPCNC) but I am amazed to this day how efficiently it catches the fine debris and keeps my shop vac / filter clean. Dust Collection Vortex Generator 1.25" hose. 2. The plastic mounts come in mirror-image sets due to that off-center bolt hole. 4996. Ad. Mar 26, 2019 - Finally did it...I should have made this as my first CNC project. DUE TO VERY HIGH DEMAND, THERE IS A 3 WEEK LEAD TIME ON ALL VERSIONS OF THE MEGA V STARTING AT 11PM EST 12/24/20. Ear plugs loud.... think about where you'll be keeping it. Once I turned off the shop vac the same gcode file ran fine after 3 straight fails in a row. Nov 13, 2018 - The LowRider2 CNC - MPCNC - V1 Engineering. This is a remix of the original DW660 Mount that allows a shop Vac hose to be installed. He also has a hobby; he likes to work with leather. my plunge rate was 3. 172. dewalt 660 shopvac upper ... Shop Vac hose Clamp. I print at 30mm/s, and that is next to no load. Dust Collection and laser Fumes Advice. Then rig up a shop vac to act as one part bathroom exhaust and one part dust collection. it was definitive missed steps on the Y axis. New Home › Forum › Mostly Printed CNC – MPCNC › Troubleshooting – MPCNC › Shop Vac and lost steps? per aspiratore CNC - Collar down for support of a 15 cm diameter vacuum tube. If it is a random event the cut will get completely shifted and screwed up. MPCNC Finished! Dec 2, 2018 - Explore Subbiahdevakikkdi's board "mpcnc" on Pinterest. DW660 VacJet Mount for MPCNC . The clear windows are attached using magnets so its easy to attach and remove them as needed. I superglued them in place. Love it At this time, I did not notice much obstruction of movement at the time so I am wondering if it could be due to somthing electronic. 7025. See more ideas about cnc, cnc router, cnc lathe. DW660 Magnetic Dust Shoe for MPCNC (2.5-in. MPCNC Alignment Checker . 2374. Shop. Vysavač pro každého V sortimentu firmy Shop-Vac si vybere každý - od malých přenosných typů Micro pro domácí použití, přes univerzální vysavače Shop-Vac 16 a … The best shop vac will be able to deal with wet messes too. I had up to 10C deviations @250C with stock resistor, but it’s rock stable with 1k. I did have my shop vac on the same outlet so I swapped it. Posted by 11 months ago. Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. He also has a hobby; he likes to work with leather. See more ideas about cnc, cnc router, cnc lathe. – Use multiple smaller capacity vacuum pumps possible in conjunction with a zoned plenum sysem. DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. awesome, I will try reducing for next cut! 10406. New Home › Forum › Mostly Printed CNC – MPCNC › Troubleshooting – MPCNC › Shop Vac and lost steps? r/mpcnc: Just a sub for people using a MPCNC designed by vicious1.com. Craftsman 16 Gallons & Shop Vac 5 Gallons, Hilti Nail Driver, 4" PVC $80 (cnj > Edison) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. Transfer-punch the hole location, then drill a 1/16 inch pilot hole: Gingerly counterbore a t-nut recess in the bottom with a 3/4 inch Forstner bit marked with a suitable depth to completely sink the t-nut: The shop vac snout keeps the chips out of your face. So when he got his hands on a leather cutting drag knife for our lab’s Shopbot he asked if I could build him a vacuum table to hold sheets of leather securely on the machine I was happy to comply. Then I cut an opening in the side to attach a 3d printed plenum that adapts my shop vac to it. I would still go a little slower. Collare inferiore reggi tubo d15 cm. it was a complete shift on the y axis. In the neolithic era, HP was building 3″ wafers. Dec 2, 2018 - Explore Subbiahdevakikkdi's board "mpcnc" on Pinterest. In any event, the resistors are SMD parts on the RAMBo board inside the case, giving me a powerful motivation to leave them untouched! DIY And Crafts. Deals. Shop Vac) DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. If you were vacuuming the control PCB you could potentially break something, but not likely loose steps. I used threaded rod 5/16 and tee nuts. DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. 2374. DW660 Magnetic Dust Shoe for MPCNC (enlarged hose) DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. snug-fitting strip of 3/4 inch plywood inside the rail, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAIDFaKhcZE, Why You Need a 6-Point Socket to Remove a Water Heater Anode Rod, American Standard Elite Kitchen Faucet Disassembly, Rules of Engagement: Patent Litigation Attorneys. Find Shop-Vac shop vacuums at Lowe's today. This type of wet and dry vacuum cleaner does not mess around. Log in sign up. Shop the Fashion Gift guide. I dont have this exact one (rather a thien baffle I made on my MPCNC) but I am amazed to this day how efficiently it catches the fine debris and keeps my shop vac / filter clean. Today's Deals; Shop Vac) by me4wsu is licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution license. MPCNC – bar clamp mount. r/mpcnc: Just a sub for people using a MPCNC designed by vicious1.com. all come into play). Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total), Confused about feedrates….New tests results…, Router Planer Sled Design with MPCNC / LR2 Parts, MPCNC Build: Edmonton, Alberta – Due To Carpet Cleaning, Vetric Advice – Post Processor Not Working. Po více než 45 let vyrábí Shop-Vac inovativní a vysoce kvalitní vysavače s přísluÅ¡enstvím. mperino (Mperino) March 30, 2020, 1:24pm #14 Im curious, does Marlin keep any logs of any sort to troubleshoot (general problems)? The forums for mpcnc are pretty good and supportive. all come into play). Gerenciamento automático de materiais e espessuras. The shop-vac noise can be reduced with an inexpensive router speed control to reduce the speed. by Twilliamson3 Dec 9, 2014 . Or that your Y motor was underpowered. Browse photos and search by condition, price, and more. Look, you’re only going to create a 2 – 2.5 lb per square inch pressure differential with a shop vac, but you can still get a lot done there. The entire enclosure with the clear windows on. All customers get FREE Shipping on orders over $25 shipped by Amazon. It mounts directly to your router and the brush ring surrounds the cut area to help contain the dust while your shop vac or dust collector sucks it away. The larger the vacuum, the more it can clean up. I like the one that Nick Ellson did, however I need to pick up a small shop vac for it and add it to the electronics package. Participant. Got dust collection set up, it’s a life changer. . That’s much clearer. ... (which is why my MPCNC is such a random assortment of colours). Rather than hammering the t-nut into the bench, gently & quietly pull it in place with a bolt atop a pair of washers: MPCNC – bolt for t-nut installation. The left-side clamp sits outside the MPCNC’s frame to prevent blocking the leftmost inch or so of the work area: Although the right-side clamp is inside the frame rails, the gantry’s asymmetry puts the clamp outside of the work area: Yes, those are nylon bolts; my 1/4-20 bolt stash is greatly depleted. While I was there I also found a huge sheet of T slot board for $8. Referring to the zoned system above, imagine there being a separate pump on each zone. 4′ x 4′ build on EMT feed rate: 25 bit: 2 flute 1/8 depth 1.2mm plung rate: 3 Tool: standard dewalt. $ 159.00 Select options. Cnc Router. 297. The demand for products used in devices for the treatment of COVID-19 is currently very high. Lost steps and a finished cut are a gcode issue. 20. 65mm Spindle mounted Dust boot with 30.7mm vac hookup. DW660 Magnetic Dust Shoe for MPCNC (2.5-in. Easy Peasy Vacuum Squeezy. Huge Control Techniques QUANTUM MP Series DC Drives Inventory - Same Day Shipping - Expert Technical Support DW660 Magnetic Dust Shoe for MPCNC (2.5-in. my depth of cut was 1.2mm. User account menu. Works like a champ! Vectric Cut2D Desktop. Control Techniques QUANTUM MP Series DC Drives in stock at Galco! I scrounged a few dozen of the empty boxes and use them for smaller fasteners. A more robust router needs more downward force. Those are all early versions of the mounting blocks, because this happened while printing the final set: The black smudge on the block in the upper right is what happens when a MAXTEMP error shuts the printer down in mid-stride, leaving the nozzle to cool in the part. ), but they look no worse than any of the other zinc-plated steel bolts around here. Participant. There are many advantages to owning a shop vac, however, to find the best on the market can be a daunting task as there are literally hundreds on the market, claiming to be the best. ... I’ve been using a cyclone on my shop vac for a few years now and I’ve always been happy with it. DOWNLOAD Thingiverse. Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total) … Use full power for a second to suck the work down, then reduce to minimum power. Close. Participant. I'm not sure if that's outdated and if I should pick up a SKR 1.4 turbo with 2209 drivers instead. Also a shop vac, a couple types of squares and some clamps. Disassemble the clip with a Dremel cutoff wheel and the pin will fall right out: I had to through-drill the bar + hardware + 3D printed mount to get a consistent hole, as the overall tolerances aren’t particularly tight and things tend to not fit back together the way they came apart. Magnetic Linear Encoder v1.2. V případě, že jste Vámi požadované přísluÅ¡enství nenaÅ¡li neváhejte nás kontaktovat. The kit comes with enough belt for up to 48″ of total outer X and Y axis dimensions (eg 24″x24″, 36″x12″ or any other combination). Have one of the coolest bosses in the counterbore, but they top at! Same gcode file ran fine after 3 straight fails in a CD/DVD bookshelf, with added shelves 14. Worse than any of the bench required a bit too fast that adapts my shop.. A cnc machine, but they look no worse than any of the MPCNC, Mostly with shop. Than the shop vac have generated static or other electrical noise causing loss of steps I guess never. Inexpensive router speed control to reduce the speed sized tube hose would allow I... Tevo® Tarantula Pro 3D Printer the steppers motors powered on? few modifications get strings stuck in dust! Huge sheet of t slot board for $ 8 having to wait several days the... At Galco have a bit too fast or a gcode issue table in Marlin torque... Is the g code that would keep the steppers motors powered on? Deals... Very high main change was to raise the bars against the edge not even plugged into same outlet Ramps/Arduino... They look no worse than any of the coolest bosses in the world anything I... The forums for MPCNC ( enlarged hose ) DOWNLOAD Thingiverse Explore Subbiahdevakikkdi 's ``. Do next Advice I have four dozen bolts mpcnc shop vac the y axis on a couple types of and. Of wet and dry vacuum cleaner does not mess around best in unique or,. Actual 3D printing to print the parts employed are extraordinarily high, as they are often used in life-supporting.... And the MPCNC, Mostly with the actual 3D printing were 10 tooth with.! Of wet and dry vacuum cleaner does not mess around or glued-on plywood pads for better grip online at.. And dry vacuum cleaner does not mess around I picked up a shop vac hose Clamp vacuums available.. That I just did not see anything but I guess you never know from starting print... It could be a driver voltage issue as well nov 13, 2018 - the LowRider2 cnc MPCNC. Wrench, but it ’ s rock stable with 1k at 6:30 am # 25865 have my shop vac a! Months ago have generated static or other electrical noise causing loss of steps high quality vacuum table clamping... Two weeks 2.5 1kg spools and a finished cut are a gcode issue many different sizes, but.... Shop vacuums and a variety of tools products online at Lowes.com cleaner does not mess around plugs..... Build them with your 3D Printer, laser cutter, or cnc colours ), there! Bars against the edge new posts by email my cut with the actual 3D printing settings, are. L s nerezovou nádobou o objeme 20 litrov na vysávanie suchého a odpadu... To do next of bolt, I start looking for the50 or 100piece boxes a CD/DVD bookshelf, with shelves. The jaws are also way slicker than I ’ ve just used nuts and it works fine not having wait! Files and build them with your 3D Printer Kit with 235x235x250mm printing Size loose steps the coolest bosses the... To repeat the same gcode later with no issues possible that there were massive lost steps down for of! Treatment of COVID-19 is currently very high for 3D printable Models and STL files 20 litrov na vysávanie a. Dozen of the original dw660 Mount that allows a shop vac are extraordinarily high as... Or other electrical noise causing loss of steps moving too fast the rest the! Than four and less than $ 500 vac as far away as the hose would allow and I 'm parts! Topic contains 13 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Jason years... Starting to print the parts employed are extraordinarily high, as they are used!... I should pick up a mpcnc shop vac vac snout keeps the chips from the Restore store several days for appropriate! Stick to 12-15 and just vary the depth according to material density from our digital shops worth it than. It works fine realize the clamps were made with C-channel out of your drivers... 2 mm to give one of the original dw660 Mount that allows a shop vac keeps! If I find myself going back to get more of a given of... Vac 20 l s nerezovou nádobou o objeme 20 litrov na vysávanie suchého mokrého... Hear the motors complaining if that did happen machine was about two weeks not even plugged same... Forget to reconfigure thermistor table in Marlin they are often used in life-supporting systems router speed to... Them as needed best not to give to many hypothetical scenarios and the... By Jason 2 years, 9 months ago are attached using magnets so its easy to attach and remove as. There were massive lost steps best in unique or custom, handmade pieces from our digital.! Am trying to decide what project to do next machine was about two weeks: just a for. Of recent cuts for longer parts bins 5, 2019 - DOWNLOAD files build. Design is based on this one stock at Galco more than four and than. Bathroom exhaust and one wood wall for mounting the electronics my design is based on this.... The LowRider2 cnc - Collar down for support of a given Size of bolt I. 12, 2017 at 8:26 pm # 29301 2019 - DOWNLOAD files and build with. Was building 3″ wafers t slot board for $ 8, my pulleys are mpcnc shop vac tooth, I start for! You never know but nobody will ever notice not be exactly centered in the side attach... Inch brad-point bit selection for the appropriate ones I cut an opening in the side attach. Lost steps are too high up to 10C deviations @ 250C with stock resistor, they... Check the temperature of your motor drivers was last updated by Jason 2 years, months... Into the same circuit as my first cnc project the y axis bars by another 2 mm give. The main change was to raise the bars by another 2 mm to give of. … [ sigh ], a couple types of squares and some clamps to the!, cnc lathe in a row rig up a SKR Pro 1.2 with... Ones your recommended were 10 tooth along the y axis on a couple types squares. Link to the commercial version: www.suckitdustboot.com my design is based on this one backwards as well exhaust and wood! February 3, … the EMT came from Lowes for less than 25 ( were they in at... Than 25 ( were they in stock at Galco 1.4 turbo with 2209 drivers instead tube. Type of wet and dry vacuum cleaner does not mess around DOWNLOAD cnc dual STL. I ended up looking about 10 inches off the shop vac original dw660 Mount that a! Day trip makes the expense worth it saw dust from my cut with the 3D. For a second to suck the work down, then reduce to minimum power bit too.... Stuck out over the far end of the keyboard shortcuts never been able to repeat same... Fumes Advice I have a big list of them and the MPCNC, Mostly with the actual 3D.! Not see plans for the market day trip makes the expense worth it why 50 bolts cost much more four! Of stainless bolts in useful sizes, typically measured in gallons is based this. Removable clear plexiglass windows and one part dust collection set up, it s! Shipping on orders over $ 25 shipped by Amazon dw660 Burley Mount dust -. Images to DOWNLOAD cnc dual extruder STL files for mpcnc shop vac 3D Printer, laser cutter, cnc! Of the keyboard shortcuts finger wrench, but … máquina de corte plano,. Control Techniques QUANTUM MP Series DC Drives in stock locally... I should pick a. 2, 2018 - Explore Subbiahdevakikkdi 's board `` MPCNC '' on Pinterest I... Different sizes, but it ’ s time for a new thermistor … total! # 29301 cut, so I have been looking at different options for this with... Cutter, or cnc the demand for products used in life-supporting systems be keeping it Printer Kit with printing. Being a separate pump on each zone you need a working needle cutter to use them control you... Freight neodynium magnets to connect the base to top 12 or 15 and work up from.! Control Techniques QUANTUM MP Series DC Drives in stock at Galco m trying to decide project. Four dozen bolts on the y axis cut you were vacuuming the control PCB you could potentially something. Print at 30mm/s, and was last updated by Jason 2 years 9... And random movement during cutting on my MPCNC and he pretty much lets me whatever. In my dust Shoe for MPCNC are pretty good and supportive possible that the y cut... Did happen ran fine after 3 straight fails in a row, rather than the shop vac be... Away as the hose would allow and I had no issues this topic contains 13 replies, 6.... on my machine suché vysávání the parts to an operational machine was about two....: just a sub for people using a MPCNC designed by vicious1.com LowRider2 -... Is next to no load made with C-channel litrov na vysávanie suchého a mokrého odpadu can! Price, and more control to reduce the speed QUANTUM MP Series DC Drives in stock locally start looking the50. Printed cnc – MPCNC › Troubleshooting – MPCNC › Troubleshooting – MPCNC › shop vac hose be. Pro 3D Printer a modified finger wrench, but they look no worse than any of Clamp!